Tim Freke Meets Prem Rawat

Tim Freke seems to be a decent well-meaning person who believes he had a "spontaneous awakening" when he was 12 years old and has been "exploring spirituality" since then and has made a career out of it. If you're living in the New Age, then Tim is "a pioneering philosopher whose bestselling books, inspirational talks, and life-changing events have touched the hearts and minds of hundreds of thousands of people worldwide" otherwise not. He has recorded conversations with such New Age intellectuals as Ken Wilber and Rupert Sheldrake. In these he "explores the great mysteries of existence with original thinkers in authentic and animated conversations." I haven't studied his work closely because I'm a skeptical materialist but I can clearly see that Prem Rawat and Tim Freke having an authentic conversation is extremely unlikely. Rawat is a cult leader who has no authentic conversations, only pseudo-omniscient speeches and phony scripted interviews and talks to sycophants.

From 1966 to 1983/84 (almost 20 years) Prem Rawat was known as the Perfect Master and the Lord of the Universe, he publicly claimed to be the Perfect Master who was also the Incarnation of God and encouraged people to give him gifts because the Perfect Master should live in luxury and never once hinted that this wasn't true. He preached a very simplistic Sant Mat form of the Indian religion that he disparages here, and despite media criticism, he never once hinted there was another story. His followers stressed his Divinity and their need to make his life as luxurious as the Lord of the Universe deserved. At least in this, there was no pretence. Unbeknownst to Rawat, Tim Freke had been involved in Divine Light Mission in the 1970s and so he knew Rawat's real backstory

When Freke suggests an exercise for consciousness expansion he thinks is meaningful "Look into each other's eyes and to sit there often in silence or music playing for like three minutes … I think there's something about seeing it, … looking at your face now but the thing I'm connecting with just personally I can't see it is your psyche is your soul … and what I see there is the feeling this this what I call big love." Rawat quickly diverts the topic. The idea of Prem Rawat looking into another person's eyes as an equal or, God forbid, a moral or spiritual superior is unimaginable. Quel horreur!

Rawat moves the topic on to people who hate each other and the dire state of the world. But Freke knows better. He's read Rosling's Factfulness, and knows that billions of human lives have improved in the last 60 years (and this was the most important thing mentioned in the talk but not discussed further) so Rawat leaves that topic.

At Freke's insistence Rawat, at last, talks about the time in his career he wants put in a black hole. The 15 or so years in which he played the role of Guru Maharaj Ji on stage, the Lord of the Universe and the one and only Incarnation of God.

Freke: "when you're on the big stage … all of that period of your life where you're being seen in this way as this, you're projecting that really, of this Divine Being … what was happening for you when you were, all of these people were adoring you … what's that like? What, what was inside you?" Rawat replies with a bald-faced lie "Well, the adoration has to be not for me, the adoration has to be for the infinite in them."
Freke tries again, "But it was being directed very much at you."

Rawat goes off into high-minded sounding gobbledegook and leads Freke away from that topic.

Freke tries again: "I mean you're young, I mean what teens and 20s and that's a different time obviously what? what is? what it did. How did you see yourself? Did you see yourself in the way that you projected yourself?"
Rawat replies "I had just come from India and literally everybody around and it was also the period of time where it was like look towards the east for answers so I was the perfectly situated for that. Here I had come from the East and the young boy who has come with this message and everything else and we will sort this out by literally taking on a part of a behaviour that had nothing to do with knowing yourself nor it had anything to do with experiencing the divine. It was literally Indian religion."

Rawat is somewhat unintelligible here but I think he is claiming that he never believed in that "Indian Religion" which he taught for 15 years and used for his legitimacy. It could be that Rawat is lying at that moment to make himself seem more authentic to Freke, pretending he was too cool, too realised to believe that hokey Holy Family shtick but even as a boy he was smart enough to know he didn't have more powers than Ram nor would he rule the world when he couldn't even rule his own mother.

Freke tries again:: It's like what was happening for you when you were all of these people were adoring you and like what's that like? what was inside you? At that time did you believe your own hype or not? I mean did about the you know the the whole Perfect Master and all the Lord of the Universe?

PR: No! Look! I had to go to school every day. (TF: No, I mean when you were here) No. No, but in India too. I was already hailed a Perfect Master and I have to go to school and I was no Perfect Master in school so already this duality existed. Where you could be and you couldn't be. So I come out, I come home, I'm not a Perfect Master, my mother is telling me, you didn't do this, you didn't do this, do this, do this. I go in on weekends or on school holidays out there and there's thousands of people cheering and going yay yeah yeah of course you are and I was like well which one is it? Is it that one? or is it that one? See, and I realized I have to be me. I wasn't a student nor I was the Perfect Master.…

Rawat goes on to say he was a true Master of Peace in disguise while playing the role as Lord of the Universe so that eventually they, the people who worshipped him because he'd convinced them he was God on Earth" can have a incredible fulfilling experience in their life, to know the self and to experience the divine." This is not one that stands up to any scrutiny and Freke did not believe it though he is too polite to ask more specific, hard questions. Freke is seeking dialogue, not dispute so he doesn't point out Rawat's lies. Anyway Click Here for the full transcript:

What Did Tim Freke Think About Prem Rawat After their "Discussion"?

• I didn't set out to attack or endorse him only to see who he is and how he thinks … for me it was a sort of 'mythic' moment … a circle on my journey because of my distant past
• I dont feel that he had some greater experience at all
• I wanted to hear what had actually happened for him because the book didn't give that … as I remember it the book gave a new spin on the old story … to make it fit the new PR
• I wanted to hear him be authentic about his actual experience so we could engage in a real way not just with well rehearsed scripts … and that happened a little I think but nowhere near what I would have liked
• I feel he failed to acknowledge and be honest about his past
• I found his ideas surprisingly strange
• the most interesting thing was after our conversation his entourage (who were all lovely) were so enthusiastic because they said : "no one ever questions him and it brought out stuff they'd not heard in all the decades with him." I took from this the reason he was intellectually incoherent was that he didnt have people around him to question him and sharpen him up
• I am no longer angry, but I completely understand ex-premies who are

What Were the Comments Left by People Who Watched the Video on Youtube?

@chriscarter613 Love the simplicity and beauty that Prem comes with and very good questions from Tim

@arartandcraft6628 Thanku so much sir for, being there for us and your message always made me feel great and by listening to your message, I got solutions for my problems which always makes me sad and wonder about why I am here and what I am doing but thank you so much for guide me and showing the path I really wanted to walk on. Thankyou so much

@jackpayne790 This guy is not hearing a word Prem is saying …He cannot imagine that "the reality" Prem is talking about cannot be imagined. It can only be experienced

@lindafox1679 thank you both for this conversation. It is so important to learn and grow. Thank you for this Knowledge Prem

@Robinsonbliss Thank you Mr Prem Rawat for your dignity, humility and clarity in the way you presented your message. Thank you.

@carmenciloni7408 Thank you Prem for staying clear. I found it interesting to watch the ego meander, divert and struggle to understand simplicity.

@me-owwwsisters9111 1 year ago Thanks you so much

@hernansantiagobilbao533 Also Prem, could you expand on the statement that we are a bi-product of Ultime Reality, but the Ultimate Reality doesn't know about us, the byproduct. 38 Minutes. Thanks Prem. !

@lumac77 1 year ago Prem speaks very clearly about himself.

@muskan8100 Every time you speak, it gives me more strength and understanding. Special Thanks & lots of love to you prem rawat ji .

@beerabisht2158 Very nice thank you Prem Rawat ji

@RamKaranYadav Greatfull and intellectual talking of Mr. Prem Rawat, very good philosophical conversation, a lot of thanks from my heart.

@herenow2895 Thank you Prem :)

@adributu A bit too complicated for me at times, but this world is complicated, … Know the self, experience the divine is what I wish to remember.

@vijayjaria9721 I love "PREM' because he changed my world. He connected me with the source of that love within me. Due to which an atmosphere of peace is easily maintained around me.

@lumac9 Prem speaks clearly.

@angelou2812 What can I say?
Very grateful …this was so moving

@premrawatjiwithsinhala7352 Very practical peace inspiration. Thank u very much Premrawtji.

@gokulpandey4970 Your words touch my heart and I calm down, thank you Mr. Prem

@lallanpatel5617 Very interesting interview with Tim Freke and Mr. Rawat. thanking you

@deephuman6411 Thanks a lot Prem sir for your efforts

@i.m.7710 Dear Prem,
Thanks for your infinite patience and for never giving up! My admiration for you is boundless. Thanks for all you do! It's much more than we know!
Sending love,
Isis M.

@SRDhain A great interview. Thank you for sharing

@irenezalewski5072 1 month ago Push the evolution towards peace ….absolutely true, thank you.

@robertewing3114 At one of the latter NEC events his answers to questions, always remarkably impressive and I think particularly impressive at events, were long and remarkable to the degree that I thought to myself then and there, This is a great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great man.

I think I got it right there! And his long and remarkable care is great indeed.

@its4sinha Thank you for this insightful conversation! Learning about this life through your talks have been an incredible journey for me. Every time it unravels a new simplicity about life and helps unlearn and let go the "noises" holding me back. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

@sunnymacduffee6849 Thank you for 50 years of Beautiful Love and Gratitude that the experience that you have shown me has given me

@Encar922 Thank you, Prem. Life itself is a feeling of unconditional love for being alive and love love with all this beautiful life. yeah

@vibetone355 Only the experience of the creator is real

@hernansantiagobilbao533 I totally got Bliss Out in the minute 28 of the conversation. WOW! I wish I could express the understanding… maybe I tried later. There should be more conversations like this one. Thanks!

@lindasands1433 1 year ago What a great (& uplifting) conversation