Prem Rawat aka Maharaji aka Guru Maharaj Ji Speechifying Selected Listening '87

As we try to grow, as we try to expand in our lives there are limitations and sometimes life is nothing but a push to go beyond the limitations. A child when young can only point to objects, can only look at objects. Their mysterious, they're different and yet there is a growth constantly happening and even these words which are not a language, just ah and ooh and expression to convey that I wanna know more. I wanna know more about everything, I don't want to be limited and this perseverance, this push is there from the very beginning, from the very start. As we try to push ourselves we look, we look around us, we look so many things that are curious that we want to know about. We look at the moon, we look at the sun, Mars, we look at the heavens above, we wanna go there we wanna be there.

I had an incredible experience in Washington, went to the Smithsonian Institute, my family had met in Washington so I wanted to show them the Smithsonian Institute. Well two of my boys are very much so into aeroplanes and uh we went there, we saw the Space Museum, had some seats for the show that they had there in the hall is very much like this, kinda very steep angle and then a huge screen, huge and it's a (clears throat) not a 120 mm screen even, it's it's it's a huge, huge film that they show on it and wan I got to go back in the projection room and see how big that was and usually what we have is about a 70 mm and this was actually 120 mm screen uh film and this showed and one of them was about this earth and it was shot from the shuttle and this thing goes up and then they shoot the earth down below and I remember I was frozen in my seat because I couldn't believe that there it was that somewhere when that film was being shot I was down there on this earth doing something I don't know what it was but I was down there and did when I was down there I mean it was a perspective just a perspective of what it's really like, how beautiful it is that if we look at this earth and I know this is true for a lot of the astronauts when they have been out there that it has changed their lives completely. That for us to have our differences, to have different ideas doesn't seem possible when you look at this earth. It's so beautiful, so incredible and I didn't know I mean I knew it was beautiful and I've seen pictures of it from the other, other projects that have gone up and, and it didn't seem much. It's like a ball, a blue ball marble but in this film and right in front of you on this huge IMAX type of screen that they have it was, it was just shocking and as they panned they kinda went like this you know just had to loose ??? cause it was such a big screen.

Here I am, I'm still here and this earth still looks like that but what is it that has to happen in our lives to take us from just reaching outside and start reaching inside. As much as a resource we see this outside to be for satisfaction quote unquote satisfaction.

Then of course there is the Volkswagen you know and there is the Bug maybe we can start off with the Bug then as you work your way through the college and get good grades and so on and so forth you can graduate to a Quantum or a Rabbit, still a Volkswagen and then you can still go on a little further and maybe you can get into an Audi and then from an Audi maybe one day you'll have Cadillac. There was an article long time ago about the psychology of automobiles of how actually these designers when they design the cars who are they making the cars for. A Lincoln Continental seems to be for the one who has made it, who has got it who's who's who's got no problems anymore, they're flying high and and and somehow it's true, people have these personalities, cars take on these personalities, the objectives, the goals, I need to have one of these. Someday. I'm gonna work hard and have one of these and somehow there is a sense of satisfaction and it's true, when you get your first Cadillac, clean it, keep it clean, you read the manual, take care of it (seems very sleepy, yawns) and then as the time goes by and you know it starts making noises and have a few flats and a hot water problem and all that good stuff something, some interest gets lost.

At the same time there is something inside that's fishing, fishing for what you may call satisfaction you can call it fulfillment, you can call it anything you want cause it's irrelevant, the name became a later, the feeling came first and so it's totally irrelevant what people want to call it and I, I know people get very caught up. What is it? Now people say peace. I said "What is it a piece of that we are looking for?" They say "No, peace, tranquility, total tranquility" and sometimes you wish you could have a long talk with them about total tranquility cause people talk about infinity, infinite.

Not too long ago I just was having a conference in uh uh close to San Antonio (sucks snot and swallows) it was, it was really something because people started we were talking about Knowledge or an experience or whatever we want to call it and people said "Yeah, it's infinite, isn't it?" I said "How many things in your life have you experienced that you can say they're infinite."

If somebody says to me black it's very easy, this is black, this is black, this is black (presumably pointing to black objects) and monitor is black. It's a very easy because I have seen black. Light, somebody says light. I have no problem with that, there is a light there, there is a light there, there is a light there and so on and so forth. (presumably pointing to lights) Now somebody says a word to me that I think I know the definition of. What it means I have no idea and that's exactly in one sense that you will have no idea, it's infinite, has no beginning and no end, it's totally, totally total. It's not incomplete and yet it's totally complete and complete not just within its own self but it is an all of a sudden you just start scratching heads. I don't know what that means. I wanna know, I wanna feel but people come with ideas of what is it that we want in our lives and so we proceed.

We go, we go along our way, we go along our path and we've got these billboards, if you will, and one billboard says this is what you're looking for and you kind of scratch your head for a little while and say "Mmm, now it's very clear to me what I'm looking for. I'm looking for that." And you drive down a few more miles, still looking for that, what you saw on the billboard and there's another billboard and the other billboard says "You are now looking for this" and you drive down a little s-and now you're looking for the second, second thing that was on the billboard. You drive down a few more miles and there's another billboard says "Now, now, you're looking for this thing, completely different" and in life, for me, I know so much of it has been like this.

I did not start with this incredible quest. When I received this experience, when I received the tools to be able to have this experience I was fairly young. I was not, the world was not a fiasco, my fiascos were little. Homework and no homework were my fiascos at that point. Do I have to go to school? You know I have a four-year-old and this is what his question is every morning. Do I have to go to school? Well it's like um I know, I know, I've been through the same thing and it's amazing. I went through it and now he's gonna go through it right in front of my eyes and I'm fairly young, I remember a lot of that stuff. I do remember a lot of that stuff. I was not very old when I had my first uh child, I mean hey I remember all that and it's gonna be a repeat of something.

Looking at the billboards, something telling me what I want, something telling me what I'm really looking for and it never me taking a look inside my own self and saying what am I looking for? It's too easy to say I'm looking for something or I'm not looking for something. It's too easy to say "It would be nice to feel fulfilled. I need to feel fulfilled." It's easy to say that but how many lights, bells and whistles does it really ring in you when that word fulfillment even crosses your eardrums.

We are all individuals and as an individual we come, as an individual we proceed and as an individual we exist and as an individual we go away and in one sense it's this time that we have. Whatever this time is and perhaps many theses can be written about it but whatever is going to transpire is going to transpire in this time for us and in this time does there need to be and this is a question a recognition of the time itself, a recognition of what is taking place. Something simple, something profound but something simple, something called life that's what's really happening cause I know I like to always take a chance for my own selves, for myself, to just stop for a minute because sometimes things are going at 100 mph all around me say "Whoa, wait a minute."

Sometimes you wake up in the morning and all you can think about is what's going on today? What's happening today? And like well you've got this appointment, this person is coming to see you and you've got to see that person and you going to do this and you're gonna do this and you gonna do that and I say "Wait a minute" cause if I look at all these things they will happen perhaps today maybe they may not happen tomorrow and they may be all very different day after tomorrow. What is really really happening amidst of it all? And sometimes it's hard to take a period of time, to take a chunk of time and say "This is mine. This is my life. This is what I have been given. I'm not takin' it, I have been given this. This is what I've got, this is my greatest asset." The greatest. The most and what does it mean to me, what recognition do I have off it? And yes one has to go very far back to even recognize that it's not just a, just a thing that you wake up in the morning, walk into the bathroom, you brush your teeth, you comb your hair and you walk out and off you go to your job and that's where it begins. We can do things that we do in this life and so many things that we do are totally unconsciously that we are not even aware of them.

What did you do yesterday? If somebody asks me I can remember just the highlights "Oh yesterday I was in Manchester and I remember I gave a presentation there and yes I had lunch yesterday and I woke up in the morning." If I really think about it and for a minute to minute account I was to come up with either think I could cause it just kinda slid by, the whole day, it just came and went away, I just was there and is that it? Is that what my life needs to be? Yes I want to comprehend so many things as an individual, as a human being I want control of every single facet of my life. In fact I would even like to determine when the sun comes up cause it'll make it much easier on me. I don't have to set an alarm clock then. When you wake up, that's when it's seven o'clock. That's it, it you decide, I decide and I

Then you know even driving on the freeway today, coming here it was like "I just hope there is no traffic jam" and and it's one of those things, I remember the last time I was given time, 45 minutes to get here. I said "Okay, 45 minutes, we'll make it." I said "Aah that's, that's already got 15 hour fudge factor built into it so I don't have to worry about it. I'll get there on time, don't worry." And that day I did not take into account that there was going to be a traffic jam and there was absolutely one of the most horrendous traffic jams that you could possibly imagine and I came backstage just a minute before the program was supposed to begin. It was a quick one and today I said to myself "Okay, give yourself plenty of time, don't worry about it, give yourself as much time as you can cause always there's going to be a traffic jam around there." Not a single traffic jam, the highway was absolutely smooth, made it in about 50 minutes, no problem, no problem whatsoever and

I want to know, not only am I inquisitive, not only do I want to control my environment, no not only do I want to control everything around me but I am inquisitive as we all are. We wanna know, we wanna know why we are here but what do we miss out on? What are we getting caught up in definitions for? What are we running away from? Because this is a question that must be examined. Is there something more going on here? Than merely our decisions making process every day. Are we just a decision-making machine? Which we are. That we get up in the morning and we, we have to say today is a good day, today is a bad day, this is good, this is bad, I wish things were this way, all the things that are going on. Are we simply a decision-making machine or is there more, more than that going on?

We look at-so many people come up sometimes and they'll say "Well what about the misery in this world?" Well if you want to take a look at the misery in this world, I assure you it exists and if you want to take a look at the joy in this world, I assure you that exists as well. If you want to find a dark spot on the face of this earth, I suppose that's not too hard to do. All you have to do is close your eyes and things kinda disappear. Open your eyes and you can see again and we wait as though that there is going to be an outcome, that we in this life must do whatever is going on, bear the pain, bear the misery and that will yield some day a good result. A result that will be favorable to us, that just go on, continue. To some people they are quite willing to accept everything that they have, perhaps they have a nice flat, nice car, a nice family and that's sufficient. Well, maybe it is and nobody can argue one way or the other but the question still remains that in the midst of it all that, in the midst of having a good family, a good car or having a terrible family and a good car or a great car and a terrible family or however you want to slice it, you know all the odds, the right wife, the wrong kids, the right kids, wrong wife, I mean whatever you want to do it, any which way you want to throw it up in the air or any combination thereof that what is going on?

Who are we? And more importantly, who am I? As an individual because I come as an individual, each everybody sitting here, you perceive things individually, it you are here individually, you think in individually, you experience individually and when you have to go about the business of uh aahah satisfying your thirst, you have to do that individually you simply cannot tell your girlfriend or boyfriend or wife and say "Dear, will you please go and have a glass of water for me?" Can't do that, you simply can't do that. So then if those important things, if what it really boils down to, really focuses down to, we are individuals then as an individual what are we really experiencing? Are we experiencing that individuality? Are we experiencing something called life or are we experiencing things that do happen to happen in our lives? There is a big difference between the two.

Sure, here I am, I enjoy many things and I enjoy painting and there, there was a time when I didn't, I stopped. I enjoy music, not all the time. I enjoy cooking, not all the time and yes I can say there are all these little factors in my life but they happen to be there, they happen to be because I am alive and I am not going to say which one question that so many people ask is "Who am I?" No that's that's not a that's that's I wanna stay away from that, hundreds of miles as far as I can cause who am I is a question that nobody can endorse. Nobody can come along point to you and say "Ah, that's what you are." Cause to me there has to be a feeling from me who is ultimately going to decide that I am happy or I am not?

Who is ultimately going to decide that I am hungry and I am not. Who's ultimately going to decide I am sleepy or I am not? Sure, when we were little children, the mother decides. When we were wide awake, sitting you know on our bed and she'll come along and she'll say "It's time to go to sleep now" and you say "Well mother I'm not sleepy." "Ah, don't fight with me, don't talk back, you go to sleep" and the teacher in the school he, you know, there you are because you went to sleep so late, you wake up in the morning you find yourself falling asleep and maybe not, maybe it has nothing to do with the fact you woke up-you went to sleep late, you woke up really late, maybe what is being said is so boring that that that you know I mean and and so much of the school system it is the responsibility of the student not of the teacher to make it interesting. If you don't find it interesting, it's your problem. Good teachers on the other hand make sure that it is interesting so there you are, you're falling asleep and the teacher says "You are not supposed to do that" and they're making the decision for you that you ought not to be falling asleep but who ultimately decides?

Sleep is one thing, when it overcomes, it overcomes, it shuts you down. Hunger is hunger, it gets you growling. Thirst is thirst and it gets you going and then of course there are the other things which are even more pressing than that such as the use of the bathroom. (laughter) When you have to use the bathroom, you have to use the bathroom. Silly example, yes, but we all go through it and there's no two ways about it, there's absolutely no two ways about it. I travel sometimes on commercial airlines and boy you know, the plane is flying forward, the bathrooms are backwards and everybody's turning around especially in the morning if you've had a long flight trying to figure out and this is really interesting it's like always they have the seatbelt signs so you can be sitting in your seat very comfortably and looking forward and you can see Fasten Seatbelt and No Smoking but the bathroom sign is on top of the bathroom all the way back there and there's no way for you to know and so many people will get out of their seats and they will actually just stand around in the morning, stand around next to the bathroom so that they're in queue and you know that there might be five gentlemen who are in front of you and then a lady comes along and you know that you may as well go and sit back in your chair. (laughter) There's no way, there's no way, you know your number isn't gonna come up but that's the way it is. It becomes very compelling. Many, many rough landings in airplanes have been directly attributed to that (laughter) it is true, it is true. I know of quite a few pilots who have told me you know they've, they've thrown the airplane literally on the ground, thrown the brakes on top , got out, ran over, (laughter) ran over but who is gonna decide that? I mean yow we can, we can hang off and we can say "No, that's not the way it is" and we can deny a certain thing and you ask me if using the bathroom is a silly experience or a silly thing but we do it and it's compelling but if we take something like that that is happening around us as well, something is going on.

There are, there are things, things manifest in our lives, things, life is not mundane by any means. There is a, there is a steer force in our life, each one of us when we are sad there is something that says "You ought not to be sad." When we are happy, something says "Go on." When we get stuck, something says "Move" and it's there, it's there. What is our recognition of it? How much do we really know about it? What do we understand of it? What do we how much do we know really of our own selves? Life is a path in itself and we're all walkin' it, all of us, whether we like it or not and you walk and at first there are the ideas that there are so many destinations. "Oh yeah, there is a destination so I gotta, I gotta go" and first the whole walk begins with one suitcase here and one suitcase here, good old backpack and another suitcase between the legs and tryin', tryin' to make a walk off of it, to walk the path of life itself. Then you realise hey this one's ridiculous, off it goes, then you realise no this one's ridiculous too and you let go a little more.

Confucius have a has a very beautiful saying and he says for the first part of my life when I was little I did everything that my parents told me to do. Then when I started going to school I did everything my peers told me to do. After I graduated I did everything my boss told me to do and now that I've finally retired I have realise I should have done what I wanted to do all along and that's a little Confucius saying. One little bag here, one little bag here, one little bag here, one little bag here, get rid of this one, get rid of this one, get rid of this one, I need to walk, you need to walk.

Side B

And believe it or not one of the most beautiful things because when I was young I didn't I mean I, I didn't get to this experience because I was desperately searching, believe me. It was very beautiful how, how I got to it but I wasn't one of these desperadoes or anything like that. It happened very beautifully and subtly in my life. You know I had I mean I was born in India so I was already there so I wasn't going to go to India to search for it (laughter) and um any time I wanted to take a look at the Himalayas all I had to do was climb on my roof, they were right there but it's been a very beautiful experience for me because one thing that

I have realised that I could have been walking my life looking for the mile markers because there was a destination to get to and there were no mile makers, there are no mile markers. None, not even one and I could have spent a lotta time looking for my mile markers and all of a sudden I did realise that there is no destination. Life is a path in itself. Walk! Go! There'll be pits and you'll get over 'em and there'll be great times and you'll get over them too and everything'll be fine and you'll just walk and you'll enjoy every step you take, every step and that's where it needs to be. Not that that's not the way it is all the time I mean there is when you get in the pits you know it's the pit. Long time ago I read this saying, it said "Every time you fall pick something up, you're down there anyways (laughter) so do something fruitful." Learn and sometimes the saga is you learn to forget to learn to forget so whatever you learn then you forget then whatever you forget then you learn again and then you forget it only to learn again and that's okay too because I am complete. I don't need my backpack. I don't need my suitcase, I just need to walk and I need to walk and there's many other people on this road. Many, many, many, many, many.

Some are running and makes you wonder, shouldn't I be? But just keep walking (laughter) you'll catch up to them, don't worry, you'll catch up to them, they'll be sitting there huffin' and puffin' on the side of the road (laughter) just, just go, just walk. There's always the big dream, isn't it? The big cafeteria, the big hotel will be the at the end and I'm gonna soothe my feet in the cold water in the bathtub and order a nice, big meal and no, soothe yourself as every step you take in this life. Feed yourself now, not later. There is no later, people are saying "I'll just start, I wanna eat, I'll just get there I'll mean I'll make my time, I'll get good at it it, I'll rush and rush and rush-there is no rushing. Life has its own clock and it doesn't stop for you and it doesn't start for you and it doesn't do nothing, it just ticks and you go and it's okay.

I know so many people, so many people raising their family and I don't know what it's gonna be like, I'm still very young, I have four children, I can relate, there is that feeling, I wanna do so much, I wanna do so much then the kids grow up an one goes and then the second one goes and the third one goes and the fourth one goes and one day the vacuuming you did yesterday will suffice for today as well because there is nobody's walked in the carpet and you don't have to do laundry because there's only your clothes, the bibs haven't been touched and it's only meal for you and another person and the dishwashing only takes 5 minutes. It used to take 45, only takes 5 and people get very lonely, I mean it hits them like a Mack truck head-on Bang "What do I do now?" What do you do now? What you should have done before you ever got married, what you should have done even before and before and before and before. Be with yourself. You can't be with yourself, can't recognise yourself, can't recognise that beauty in this life. Many will come, many will go and you can create another little house and wish and pray for those grandchildren and they come in and you know and grandchildren start coming they don't come in little pieces, they just come, 20 of them (laughter) cause the chain multiplies and for somebody like me and I'm only 28, I, I'll probably see great grandchildren, I hope but I need to have a recognition in my life now and for all of us and no more because time and this is the saying "Time is too slow for those who wait, too swift for those who fear, too long for those who grieve, too short for those who rejoice but time is eternity for those who love" and I thought that was a beautiful saying cause it is and we need, we need to love in our lives but there is something so precious, so beautiful and so incredible, something inside of us that we can love and behold and it's not somebody's version but it's us.

Oh and yes, there are people singing and there are people dancing and where are you? Just where are you? and you can be, you can be anywhere, absolutely anywhere in this festival. It doesn't matter people there are people maybe who are saying "Oh you need to be on our ride, you need to be on this ride now." I don't wanna say that, I just wanna say one thing that know that you're here to enjoy, that you are here to enjoy and that you can enjoy. There is so much to enjoy in this life, in this precious, precious life that we have been given.

What am I offering? Do I make a difference? Well, I make a little bit of a difference. If you wanna break it down into percentages, I make a 2% difference, you make the 98% difference.

To some people you know being on this earth is a total mistake. I don't think it's a mistake, no way, it's not a mistake. In this life, in this existence, in this being, so much. There is no limit, there is absolutely no limit. One can have so much, don't set a limit, s don't, you don't need to. Enjoy, enjoy whats you've been given, every day. Every day, every moment of this life. Don't look at the second hand and say "Gees, how quickly is this life passing away." Because you know something, when you're not looking at the second hand it's still passing away. Yesterday, yesterday is a cancelled cheque, tomorrow is a promissory note. The only hard cash you have is now so spend it wisely.

To me each one of us has to live this life consciously, consciously. Every step taken deliberately, not looking this way and walking that way, that's going to be an eminent (sic) accident and this is when this life become an accident. My God I know why I'm here but enjoy, to be in that enjoyment, to know, to know that choice, choice not chance determines destiny and we can walk sure footed. We can walk with a confidence that we are loved, that it is not a mistake, that there is enjoyment to be had and then each step becomes enjoyable, each step become conscious and that is when there is a feeling of the real festival, the lightness to know, to know.

When you are in a strange town and when things are unfamiliar it feels uncomfortable, it feels uncomfortable because you don't know where to go and all it is is a big discussion with somebody, you have the map in your hand and you're saying "Where is this?" and you don't understand the language and you go from one guy to the other guy to the other guy to the other guy. Before you know most of your time has been spent talking to somebody and figure out to get there instead of getting there and you finally realise you can't get there because you've got the wrong map, you're in the wrong city and it's not, this life can't be that, can't be that but when does the familiar decome (sic), the familiar decomes like Socrates said "Know thyself." Know who you are. Before you go around figuring out where you wanna get, know who you are and it can be and

the only thing I am offering is a tool, is a way to be able to access inside that feeling, that you, that's there. You like it fine, you don't like it fine, there's no pressure, nobody's trying to sell you anything because one thing of all the people that I have talked to and for years and years I have spoken and millions of people I have addressed one thing I have learned yes I know that actually there's a lot of things I've learned and I'd love to write a book sometime and put it all in there but one thing I have learned is you can't convince anybody of anything, that the day I walk on this stage thinking in my mind, in my head that I'm going to convince them of something, that's the day when I won't know what to talk about. Convince you of what? I'm speaking of feeling, I didn't write this speech, I didn't figure out what I was gonna say tonight but I'm speaking from a feeling and every time I do and when I know that I'm not trying to convince anybody that, that is what I have felt and I'm not saying that everybody is going to feel exactly like I do but I must try. There is something that is a part of me as well that insists that I must try because it is a beautiful feeling, something to share and what is the sharing? The sharing is the caring of this human life. Sharing, to be concerned that we're all on the same boat.


(Irish female) Can you define exactly what Knowledge is, how it works and how it's applied to everyday life cause I still am really quite confused about it?

Okay.

Knowledge is quite an abrupt word. You know

It is.

everybody has knowledge to a certain extent so how does your Knowledge differ from (people cough)

Yah, ah I know, we need to hold a raffle one of these days and let people come up with some new words (laughter) um offer some good prizes as well for it um it is a very abrupt word and it sometimes tends to have the connotation that there is a lack of one, one that is not quite true. Knowledge is a tool and I'll give this analogy and maybe this will make it clear. There is a mine somewhere, it's a gold mine. To simply know that there is a gold mine may not be enough. First of all you have to figure out how to get to it, well that how to get to it, how to be able to go inside is also process involved here. Then once you get to your gold mine it's not gonna do you a lotta good to sit there and look around and say "Boy, this is really good" but you need to dig the gold. To be able to dig the gold you need some tools. Well, what we called 'Knowledge' and I'm just putting the quote unquote because if you can come up with a better word hey I'm open, I'm not caught up in a lotta words but it's a tool like a shovel and a pick and so on and so forth that allows us to go inside and dig the goldmine that we have. When we dig the goldmine that we have the consequence of digging gold you'd be rich. Now you can be very rich and not do anything sit there. You can be rich and you can say "Well, I think I'll change my car then I'm just using an analogy I don't mean particularly that you would go out and change your car after you received Knowledge but you absolutely have the option of changing your car or sticking with a Honda if it seems to do the purpose, that's fine too or maybe you'd like to graduate up to a Honda or maybe you'd lie to graduate up to a Rolls. The, what the application of it is, is totally unlimited whether you want to apply it or don't want to apply it. Knowledge is trying to more or less address, the experience that Knowledge brings is more or less trying to address a fulfilment inside rather than totally outside and so the process of whatever it is, is acquiring the tools is. People say "Well if that's how simple it is hey throw some my way." First of all there has to be a recognition, what is it that we want? Many times there is an emptiness somewhere else in our lives and instead of filling that emptiness we try to fill the emptiness inside but it doesn't always work you know there have been cases where people have come to me and and and said "I really need something' and after a little while you talk to them and what they really is their wife because she's leaving or their husband, he's leaving and Knowledge isn't gonna fill that. You know she's you're not gonna turn this grand guy all of a sudden or grand woman all of a sudden in half a split second that the other person is just gonna come running you know "Oooh" you know it's just like those movies like the The Sound of Music you know just running around on top of the mountains singing their songs it just it doesn't, it doesn't seem to have those transformations. It's application is totally up to you and and in a nutshell that's the process. Does that kinda answer your question? More or less.

So it's more or less a spiritual thing?

No it's not in a spiritual thing. It's more of a practical thing. Spiritual thing can be very vague. Spirit. Spirit is that's a very vague word to people because there is a little drawer, it's called spiritual and all the things on the table that don't belong to any other drawer you just lump 'em together, open this drawer and shoo. (laughter) Some people have it phenomena, some people will have it "I don't know." Some people have it spiritual so I don't know if it's really spiritual it's more or less a very practical experience, something we can experience now and we have a control over it in that sense as well. How much we experience it, if we want to experience it. No, it's not a spiritual, spiritual where the spiritual connotation comes from because if you tell me where it comes from I'd like to correct my own self because it's really not, not spiritual at all.

(posh English female) I appreciate the simplicity that you have. I found it very irritating at first but you seem to be going round and round and not quite getting to what a questioners want a point, a package and saying "Thanks, that's nice, it' got a label." Um but I do appreciate it now, I see that it's difficult to talk about it and I think I appreciate the fact that it's commonplace, by that I mean it's a place that's common to us all, I like that. What I still would like to know quite simply I don't want to be told exactly which shovel, what tool and so on but is it an element of meditation that is the process by which you reach it? That's interests me.

Okay and I'll try to be as vague as I can hahaha (laughter) not that not that I have managed to hook you to the simplicity of it um um. Okay, it's it's very easy for people to call it meditation and sometimes people do call it meditation but um for most practical purposes there's very little in it that resembles meditation in that that one sometimes one thinks that one has to grant themselves a posture for cross legged and so on and so forth and uh that's not quite necessary and so you can make it appear to be meditation but it's not. (laughter)

That's fine

Okay

And thank you for not putting it into a mystic balloon.

Oh I I try very hard. Hey, to me, my Creator put me right here, I wanna be here, I don't wanna float away (laughter) you know because, because when I do, you know, what He's gonna do one of those days He's gonna go "Get back down" (laughter) and uh I wanna be here. I mean, there's no difference, I feel between me and anyone sitting here. You're learning, we're all learning and it's just a beautiful interaction, it's beautiful.