Guru Maharaj Ji, who are you?
Who am I? I'm just an ordinary humble servant of God, preaching the gospel of peace in the world, preaching the Knowledge of peace. Am I anything else? You are seeing my body, but I am not my body. What I am is something else inside me. What are you? You are not your body, you are something else. What I am seeing when I look at you is a perishable object, a case in which that power, that soul, is being carried. Understand? When you see a camera, what you are seeing is not the camera, it is a tin case. The machine is inside it. Right? The case is not taking the picture, it is the machine inside that is taking the picture. And what is me is inside me. And if you want to know what that is, then look inside yourself, and once you realize that, you can realize what is inside me. Because that's the one common factor among all of us. It's not your body, because you can't operate on it. Doctors can do operations but they don't see that light inside us. Not by these eyes can you see that light. It is the divine thing, and to see that you need the divine thing.
Do you regard yourself as being a teacher of a new
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religion, or do you regard yourself as God or the Son of God?
A rose does not say that I am a rose. People who see it say it is a rose. This is the question I always get on television and on all the news programs, "Why do people say you are God?" And I say, "I don't say I am God. People see something in me and they think I am God." Right?
What is your mission in the world?
Our mission is to bring peace, love, and truth into this world. Man is supposed to be human, but actually he has lost his humanity. That's why there is so much frustration, so much jealousy, and so much hatred between human beings. We have started this mission, and it's working very, very successfully distributing love, truth, and peace so that the idea of brotherhood can come into the world.
Is it against the will of God that more than a handful of humanity will ever become enlightened? Is it possible that the whole human race will ever become enlightened?
It is possible. This is possible. It is His nature. What He decides, He can do. There are no laws for Him. There are no regulations for Him. There is no limit for Him. He is Perfect. No laws can put Him into limitations. He is not bound by laws. He has made certain laws for humanity, but not for Himself.
Maharaj Ji, is it necessary to take Knowledge before you can follow that path, or do you find the Knowledge by following the path?
You have received Knowledge? No. You don't know what Knowledge is. You are guessing. Knowledge is itself the path and also the destination. It is
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what it is and it is what it should be. Knowledge is the path to itself and takes us into itself, for it is that vibration we are seeking. It is everything. It is merged with everything. It is the Knowledge. It is the primordial vibration. It is the path to it. And it is it itself. This is Knowledge.
Some people must be born with Knowledge?
Everybody has got Knowledge in him. Everybody is born with Knowledge. The children which are not born with Knowledge are dead. Everybody is born with Knowledge. But what happens? Years come and layers start building themselves up over that Knowledge. So now there is a thick layer and when you are again in search of that Knowledge you go to Guru and Guru takes a knife and cuts through. He performs the surgery. Then you can meditate.
Is seeing divine light the end goal of your Knowledge or just the beginning?
When I say "light," you at once think of the light you see daily. We always compare everything with whatever practical experience we have of life. In talking of light we just use the terminology `light" because there isn't any other terminology, and we don't want to just sit here and not talk about the experience we have gained. But actually this is an infinite experience and not at all like the light you see.
Why does a Perfect Master have to have a living body to give Knowledge? Why is it necessary?
Are you feeling thirsty? Can you see that photo of Lord Shiva? You see the water coming out from the top of his head? Drink that water. Drink, drink! Can You? You can't drink that water. It is a picture. You need everything living. If you have doubts, you cannot ask Lord Krishna questions. That's why you need
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a living Master, for the circumstances of the world today. When Jesus was here there were no nuclear bombs. But now there are nuclear bombs, and the Perfect Master, the Perfect Savior, has come to save you from nuclear bombs.
How do I know about the Master? Will the Knowledge show me that the Master….
There are two trees, there are two trees, okay? One tree has got a red but sweet thing, one tree has got a small but very sour thing. You can only understand whether this is a lemon tree or apple tree by eating the fruit. Eat the apple and eat the lemon and you will know the taste. That is how it is for that Knowledge and for that Guru-one who is giving that true Knowledge is Satguru, is a Guru. He's a Master. Know him by his fruit, what fruit he will give you, see? Don't judge him by his body or face, or anything like that.
Is yours the only way?
I don't say that.
See, you must realize that there is only one way, there is only one way to God. God is one, He has got one address, not two or three or four or five addresses. When you say "Allah" in Urdu, "Bhagwan" in Hindi, or "God" in English, you are indicating one power, not three powers. So to realize God, there is only one way.
Guru Maharaj Ji, I was carrying a billboard with the poster about the ant and elephant, and this guy came
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up and said, "I see God in everything," and I didn't know what to say.
You should have congratulated him. Just congratulate him, and he'd have walked two steps away and would have said, "Well, I wanted to make a fool of him and he made a fool of me." He would just think and come back to you again.
I didn't want to make a fool of him.
You don't want to make a fool of him, but actually you are making a fool of him. Because he is telling a lie.
Making a fool of himself.
Himself, right. He is telling a lie and you are congratulating him on this lie, so he says, "I tried to fool him but he has fooled me. I should go back and probably I should apologize." Then he comes and listens to you and he's a very subdued man now and he's very open! Nothing is wrong anymore.
Guru Maharaj Ji, have there ever been any women Perfect Masters?
Very good question, but I don't understand it because you are limiting Masters in their bodies. Why?
It's just been that all the famous Perfect Masters have always been men.
What do you mean "a famous Perfect Master"? You see, God gives women a great thing, because He takes birth from women. And to equalize this, by being in the human frame of a man, and that's what we don't understand. But in my heart, personally I have great respect for women because even God has to come through a woman.
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Guru Maharaj Ji, both the Buddha and Jesus Christ spoke of coming again, I don't know if other gurus did as well. What did they mean?
The thing is this, did the man who was writing the Bible talk about coming again or did Jesus Christ himself say it? Jesus Christ has written no Bible. Try to remember that. Jesus Christ wrote no Bible. But he will come again. The thing is, people make mistakes about the words.
What does that mean?
He will come again! It really means that He will again come to this western world, and he'll be laughing. He'll again come to this western world with the bright light and he will shower this upon humanity. He means it.
Do you hold that Knowledge can only be given by an external guru?
If you want to drink water you have the key first-the glass.
Suppose one gives up thirst?
He will die. He won't be existing in this world too long. Talk what is practical. Talk what is practical, not theoretical, not ideas. Talk what can be possible. Many people are just interested in imagining something. Nobody can give up thirst.
Guru Maharaj Ji, yesterday you said that different people see God in different ways. Some people think He is an old man in the sky and some people think it's infinity. How do you …
There is nothing to picture. People only think of pictures because they don't realize that. God is perfect
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and pure energy and light. Right? He hasn't got two eyes, one nose, two ears, and a mouth. He is energy.
For every effect there is a cause, so what was the first cause?
The first cause is the absolute one, the absolute state, and from that absolute a second absolute was created, only it was not so absolute. Remember in the beginning it was pure energy. And there was a purpose for it. This was creation. We are all little parts of that energy. That energy hasn't actually been scattered, but what happens is that so many parts drop out of it and those little drops of that energy are in us and they are our souls.
If I call myself a Christian and I believe in the things Jesus taught, would I want to receive Knowledge from you?
Jesus taught this Knowledge.
It wouldn't be like denying Jesus then?
Jesus taught this Knowledge. Yes! Jesus taught this Knowledge. You won't be denying, you will be going further on the path, you'll be realizing who Jesus was. People think Jesus was a human being, but then they realize who Jesus was when they receive this Knowledge. We are looking at Jesus the same way as those crucifiers saw him, the same way, because we don't have what he was giving, we just have a memory of him, that's all. But when we receive that Knowledge, we really know what he gave to those twelve disciples.
Guru Maharaj Ji, what do you owe to your father?
I won't tell you what I owe. If I took all the birds, the sun, moon, and everything that exists in trying to
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repay my father, I wouldn't even be able to repay a single pennyworth. I regard Him as my father because He is my real father, and He is my Real Father. Real father and Real Father, real to Real. He is my real father because He has given me birth, and He is my Real Father because He has shown me the path. How can I repay Him for this real thing He has given me? I can't even imagine repaying Him for it, but He says that if I can just do meditation it will be much more than He has given me. I don't think so. I don't think it is true.
How do we meditate?
Start meditating on something, start knowing something, and then you will know how to meditate. Do you know something on which you can meditate? Do you see anything on which you can concentrate your mind? Go into a desert and try to concentrate on sand. Everything is sand there. But how can you concentrate your mind on it? No, you need the Knowledge. Until you know the Knowledge you cannot meditate. Meditation means concentrating one's mind into that supreme Knowledge.
Can meditation also bring the Knowledge?
What is meditation? What is eating? Meditation is like eating food. First of all you must have the food to be able to eat it, right? Imagining that you are eating will not bring food, will it? Same with meditation.
What part does a mantra play in meditation?
Nothing, nothing. It just makes your tongue in gears, that's all. Makes your mind flicker into some other way, that's all. But mind is still flickering. When I say "Ram, Rrrr-Aaaa-Ma," three times my mind flickers in one word: "Ram." More flickering of your
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mind - no good, no help. That is the question I place before people: "You say Ram today, but what were the people saying before Ram was born?" Chanting is an external thing. See?
So how can you meditate if you don't know the Knowledge?
You can't meditate. That's what I'm telling you.
Does meditating on the Knowledge help in the worship of God?
What is meditation? Perfect concentration upon a perfect thing is called meditation. Just remember that. For then you are making your soul and God into one, at that time you are receiving perfect communion with God.
Does evil come from our mind?
Right! Exactly. Do you know, the devil is the son of man that comes to mind, through mind, from mind.
Then it is not real?
Not at all. The thing which is real is so glorious, it cannot be explained. After all it is real, that is why it cannot be explained.
Does questioning produce suffering?
If you can't understand me, if you can't understand the answer, it creates terrible suffering in your mind. You cannot sleep at night because of the illusive question.
Sometimes when I try to do things it makes me upset, but when I try not to think of anything except the
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Name and try not to do a certain thing, then it seems much more peaceful.
Yes, because you are doing nothing there. You are just idly sitting down there. You like to rest, so don't do anything, just sit down and try to remember the Word, it is really comfortable! But the thing is this, a man has to get into practice with this thing. And then it becomes more comfortable than sitting around. There are many people who can't sit idle. If they sit idle they get sick. So, just try to remember the holy Word, no don't try to remember it, just remember it. It is the most essential thing. You should be always with the Word. There is no question of trying. It must be there. It is a must. And once you are remembering that holy Word all your work will be carrying on very nicely, you know, very beautifully.
Is it possible to have total self-satisfaction in this lifetime?
Maybe in five seconds, maybe in five months, maybe in five years, maybe in five centuries, maybe in five births. Or maybe in one-fifth of a second. It's up to you how much you meditate. How much you get elevated.
What do you want us to do if we don't have any Knowledge and we're not enlightened and we don't know what the Word is? How do we prepare ourselves?
See, when you go to buy a thing, you say, "Please give me the instruction booklet for this thing." You receive the booklet, and you read it, and then you understand what that thing is-how many compact systems are there in this thing, what it costs, how it has been made, and what its circuit is like. When you go to receive Knowledge, first you need the introduction, which is the discourse, which is satsang. Until you lis-
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ten to that you won't be able to understand what this Knowledge is. And what you have to do is listen until you think you are ready to receive Knowledge, and when you are ready to receive it, you will get it. These are the preparations.
How do you get this Knowledge? Ask and it shall be given. Are there many ways of asking?
The method of asking is asking. Ask.
All saints have said that before you go to Satguru to ask for and receive this Knowledge, you must have a guileless heart, a heart filled with devotion and love for this Knowledge. Ask, request, and if he is pleased with you, he will shower his grace upon you and give you the Knowledge, and if not, he will not.
Have you ever had a fear of death?
Me, fear about death? Why should I?
Why not? Why don't you have fear?
Because I have realized what death is. Man comes, and man has to go. So why should he be afraid of it? Is anyone afraid of being born? Why should anyone be afraid of dying?
If the truth was there in the beginning, how did we lose it in the first place?
It's not that we lost it, it's just that we became frustrated. You know it's there, it's just the frustration of not being able to hold it.
What made us leave our Father?
Nothing made us leave our Father. Our Father sent us here.
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Our Father sent us?
Yes. And there is a purpose for it.
But if we were with the Father in the beginning…
We are with the Father now, we are with perfect peace, everyone is, but we just don't realize it. It's a question of realization again.
But why did we leave the realization in the first place?
How are rocks formed? Rocks are formed by one layer, then another layer, so many layers, and all these layers were sand and yet they come out as rock. Sand is rock, and rock is … ?
Guru Maharaj Ji, I have often wondered: What is the relationship between man and God after death?
Die and see.
Maharaj Ji, can you get Knowledge from smoking pot?
See, suppose I am living on the moon. I am not getting any hashish, I am not getting any drugs, not even a cigarette. So suppose God comes to me at that time, and says, "You must receive Knowledge." Do I say, "God, I haven't got any hashish to smoke, so how am I going to get this Knowledge?" There is only one way to receive this Knowledge, and it isn't by hashish or anything like that. Why? I'll tell you. Because hashish is a physical thing. You smoke it into your body and you smoke it out of your body. Its effect is a physical effect. It affects your mind after affecting your body. And any process that must be ap-
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plied through the body will not take you there. You can't find yourself with hashish, you can only lose yourself.
No, man, you're wrong.
Let me tell you. This hashish smoking has only started here recently. In India they have been smoking it for a long time. These sadhus, if you ever see them, they completely lose themselves. They think about different things, things come into their mind, but all these things are external, it is not the Knowledge. Of course you get an experience, but if your car is going at 90 m.p.h. and it has a power brake and you put it on suddenly, so that you hit your head and you see light and hear music, you might think, "Oh, this is divine light." That's just a physical experience.
But when I have a good smoke, I think of love. That's all I think of.
Then continue to smoke if that is what you want. But thinking of love is not experiencing love.
But everybody who smokes, they love, you know? Those who don't smoke, they cannot love.
Maybe, but I don't smoke.
You don't smoke and you still love? Maybe you're special.
It would be far-out when you get this Knowledge, because it will take you higher than hashish. These plants come from nature, but this Knowledge is nature. By smoking you can experience something, but with this Knowledge you will experience everything, and you don't have to smoke anything.
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Guru Maharaj ji, why do I find nature so beautiful?
Nature is beautiful, that's why. Nature is beautiful, there is no doubt about it.
Maharaj Ji, is there any limit to our spiritual development?
When you become perfect, that's the limit. The question is, how to become perfect.
What is perfection?
Perfection has no definition, because definitions are incomplete and perfection is complete.
Why are we not living in such a state now, where everything is perfect?
Servants of God are living in such a state.
Guru Maharaj Ji, will you tell us the story of love?
Story of love? There is no story of love. Love is something which cannot be put into stories. Love is not a story. Love is such a thing that it can enable you to communicate with anything in the world. It is the most perfect communication. If you want to communicate with God you will have to have this love. But what is love? Today mankind loves only that thing which can satisfy his selfish purposes completely. A man will only love those things which can give him something in return. If a cow is giving milk the man will say "Oh my cow, oh my cow." But if the next day the cow stops giving milk, because of his selfishness he will kill the cow. So all these loves that man transmits through his body are selfish loves. But the love towards God should not be selfish. Real love should be permanent and consistent. It should not descend, it
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should ascend. It should be non-selfish love. This is the main story of love.
Maharaj Ji, why did you choose us?
So, whom should I choose? Donkeys? If I choose you it is your opportunity. What is the harm? Is there any harm in it? So be glad about it. Why be bothered about it?
If you reach a level where you are beyond your mind, people will start calling you mad.
The people! The people are mad! That's why they call others mad. If everyone is wearing green glasses, and one person takes his glasses off and sees the world as it really is, he can tell the others, "This world is not green, everything has got a special color." But they'll call him crazy. Because if the majority of the people are crazy and not clever, they will automatically think they are the clever ones and the rest are crazy.
Maharaj Ji, what is being done about getting Knowledge into politics?
We are trying our best for the politicians to know the Knowledge. They'll get it, because politics is what keeps them busy, but if they stop thinking with a political mind for a second, they'll need Knowledge. Politics are not bad, it's only when they are used in a bad way that they're bad.
Right. Well actually, Guru Maharaj Ji, there are many problems in the world. How can you bring us world peace out of all this turmoil?
I can show you the cause of these problems, and the way to dissolve them. America was fighting in Vietnam, and Vietnam, you know, it's so far away. Why
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destroy Vietnam? Vietnam was not eating America, but America wanted to finish it. Just abolish it, just finish it right off. This is the result of our ego. This is our mind. It is mind that makes us do all these things. Hitler wanted to conquer the world. Why conquer the world? Mind. If we can conquer this mind the world will be safe. You see what has happened today, we have got accelerators in our cars. We can accelerate but we cannot stop our cars and this is very dangerous. Our desires grow and grow and grow, but we cannot stop them. There comes a point where man becomes frustrated, and ultimately he fights. He wages wars, international wars, and civil wars. If we can control these desires, if we can control this mind, we can control war, because we don't need it, you know. This Knowledge can control desire, it can even control the mind because it is truth. Truth is one, it is like an ocean, a big beautiful ocean which is calm. A man goes and becomes one with that. He becomes infinite. We want to be one with infinity. Infinity is calm. Infinity is peace, and there our mind settles.
What is society? You can't erase society.
Suppose a man is naked, what will he wash and what will he wear? There is no society, that is why you can't erase it. It's just people's confusion that there is a society. What is society, tell me? Society is always wrong. Tell me, which society has cured humanity till now? Till now we have been listening to people who have bombed and killed to get peace, and so many terrible things have happened. It is not a natural thing. Society is a way of ideas combining people into one way, that's all. But it is not the true way. Countries are in war. That is society, that is society's doing. But is it good? No. What is the use of society, check it out from there; what has it taught you? That's why they are useless, that's why I don't
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believe in societies. I believe in what God has created, not societies.
I want to ask you your main message.
Well, the main message is that all around the world people are suffering. No matter if they are in America, the so-called richest country of the world; in India, the so-called spiritual country of the world; or in Britain, the so-called traditional country of the world, people are still suffering. Anywhere we go, people are suffering, right? Suffering is no good. We must get out of it. The only way to get out of suffering is by this Knowledge. If we want to get off the ground and fly in the air, what is the means? Airplane, right? Because it takes us high. So if we want to leave suffering behind, then we need to fly with this Knowledge, because it takes us high, not into the air, but into our consciousness, okay? By receiving this Knowledge, we can be in complete peace, we can be in complete truth.
Maharaj ji, I have heard that you said something about the bombs falling. Can you speak about that?
Why should I speak about this? I am not the man who will let the bombs fall. I am only here to show the illusion of the world.
Can we save everyone in this world?
Yes, we can.
Will it be in this lifetime, Guru Maharaj Ji, in the next twenty years maybe, or will it be in thousands of years?
No, no, no, no, no, very soon, very soon. All that is needed is for some idea of peace to get into the leaders of the world, and there will be peace. Nothing more.